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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:00 am 
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my dad is looking for a hornady gun powder measure. ive found a couple but not sure which would suit him best. the first one i am looking at is the lock n load powder measure pn#050524 the other is 050130. i do know he is reloading 223, 357. 7.62x54, and 7.62x39. i know one is bench rest (which is rifle i was assuming) would he need both one for hand gun ammo and one for rifle? can one do all these bullets. i am not sure which is best. any info would be awesome


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:45 am 
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I'm one of those people who wants what I want and people usually get me things that aren't what I want, which I view as a waste of money and time. I suggest asking him to have a look at many and decide will meet his current and future needs. One that is perfect for him may inspire him to crank out a bunch of loads for you guys to have an epic range trip. Optimism!

Maybe someone will come along who has direct experience with the models mentioned and can chime in on how they like it or which they feel they should have purchased.

evl....

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:46 pm 
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Well I'm looking into them because I know he wants a hornady. He was looking at both of these models. Will one of these work with any round he'd want to make?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:11 pm 
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If he bench rest shoots, he is going to be dinking around with very fine changes in powder. I'll write a response based on that, since it is the most demanding of the tasks you've listed. The tools used for that would be way overpriced, and far more cumbersome than is desirable for more conventional reloading. (standard powder throwers will do =/- 1/10 grain consisistency with proper technique and powders they like without all the rigmarole. That's at least as good as most factory ammo. Use a baffle, keep it full, and pull the handle the same way every time. Turning a summersault in between each throw won't make it any better, but you might feel as though it did. For pistol and high volume rifle, a press mounted auto measure is my strong preference. Hornady makes a very nice one. IIRC $125 ish as a complete unit. Here's the kit to convert their normal measure to case activated http://www.hornady.com/store/Case-Activ ... op-1-Each/)

It's pretty personal. Honestly, when people have done scientific comparisons of the major choices, all of them work about the same for the mechanical volumetric measuring tools, even down to the $24 lee measure. People have strong opinions and swear one or the other is better, but the really thorough tests debunk that. (ditto for special techniques of operating the throw lever) So what you are getting at there, is which one he likes.

To be honest, I think you are going to ask him which model he wants. It can get pricey. It sounds like he has a brand preference, so that narrows it down. Hornady is in the middle of the price range, which is not cheap. I couldn't find the model number you referenced, so perhaps it was a combo pack no longer offered. If you have a direct link that would help.

If he wants a mechanical powder measure coupled with a digital scale and a manual trickler (Digital vs magnetic dampened balance is another big choice by preference.*) something like 050101 might work http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Quick-Trickle/
That model is a bit quicker than some other manual trickler arrangements. This one integrates the trickler into the measure. If I remember correctly it allows you to do a pre-measured dump then trickle up the last few grains. The normall way this would be is a powder measure, a seperate trickler and a scale. This is an entry into bench style loading, but I would find it to be slow for less picky loading.

The next real jump up is combination measure/scale units which automatically dispense powder into the pan in precise measurements. These speed up a very slow task considerably. You calibrate the scale, fill up the powder reservior, and type in the amount you want. Hit a button and it puts that value in the pan.
Most units in this range start at about $250. These are really the way to go, if you bench shoot all the time. From what I gather, most of the die hards end up with a couple units, so they can use one while the other is in the shop for recalibration. Picky picky guys and touchy fiddly work. I don't have the patience for that. http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Loa ... dispenser/ MSRP $317


*Digital scales are great, but they have a bunch of quirks, and sensitivites, to light, breath, table vibration. A lot of people get a digital scale and revert to analogue just to be more confident. The sad truth is that a certain percentage of all models of digital scales are bad and just need sent back. Regardless of brand or price point, you will find that people get scales which creep, don't measure correctly, don't find zero... It's just part of the transaction that you might have a bad one and have to send it back. Hornady's cheap $<30 digital scale has gotten a lot of criticism for a few of reasons. 1. It is a generic $15 scale you can buy everywere, with a hornady sticker on it. (Hornady is usually above this kind of shennanigan) 2. a high portion of them are bad. It might be worth getting, but just know you might have to reject a couple before you get one you can trust. 3.

TL;DR- he probably knows what he wants, ask him. If he's been loading a while, he probably already has a standard volumetric measure and maybe he just wants a trickler and scale to go with it. Or maybe he wants to jump up to a fancier step.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:36 pm 
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Reading the calibers you listed, I think If I were him, and I was in love with Hornady, this is the one I would want: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/290524 ... er-measure
Plus this.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/591344 ... OBv1290524

I know I've seen them sold as one unit thus skipping the hand operating handle assembly. That was about $125, but I can't seem to find it now.

One nice thing about this combo is that it is good on a single stage setup or can be moved to a turret or progressive setup. IMO your dad should strongly consider one of the classic cast 4 hole turrets. They are very well made and will cut his loading time in half over single stage. (if your dad has the LNL AP, then ignore this, however the combo I linked above is what comes on the LNL AP, so I am assuming that he doesn't)

It might be nice to have both as an option though.

My personal opinion is that the more steps you automate, the less room there is for human error. Since the biggest danger in handloading is a missed charge or light charge. (Everyone is worried about double charge, but most guns can actually survive that. A squib load followed by a proper load = looney toons gun syndrome. The majority of catestrophic failures are generally attributed to this mistake. Further proper powder selection will fill most of the case so there is not physically enough room for a double charge. This also helps with visual check to make sure there is enough powder.)

Also the more steps with handling, the more opportunities for mistakes.

Charging at the same time you flare your cases on press means you will cycle the measure the same way. It also eliminates several hand operations compared to the usual method of charging while in a loading block by sliding the block under a measure: 1 pick up shell out of shell holder after belling. 2 place in shell loading block. 3 cycle powder measure. keeping track of which shell you have charged in the loading block. skipping a shell or a row will get you a kaboom later. 4. visually inspect shells. Those become a two step process comprised in the first two steps. Then a visual glance over the whole block with a light. The beauty is that the only shells in the block are charged shells, so no chance of skipping one by accident.

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shotguns, some gunsmithing, reloading, fabrication, knife making, etc.

I'm a firearms/NFA attorney in Wa. Let's combine business, pleasure, and stamps.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:17 pm 
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GunFun,
You knocked that one out of the park. Very well done and thank you for the contribution.

evl....

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(SBS and reliability are my specialties)
Cerakote and Moly Resin refinishing
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...and more

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:14 am 
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I'm with gunfun. While it's been quite some time since I shot competitively, I was never a fan of powder trickling once I zeroed in on a load for a particular gun.

Gunpowder is hygroscopic, as it absorbs humidity the weight changes. I always had better luck based on volume rather than weight. Used to buy surplus powder of the same lot in bulk and once I figured out a load I relied on volume alone.

Always triple check each round has powder at the same level.

I still use my same hornady powder measure from either late Reagan or early Bush 41 time.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:55 am 
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People seem to get excellent results from opposite theories. It seems that if you are a meticulous old coot who values precision more than time, you will get accuracy.

I read a pretty comprehensive test where they compared pure volumetric vs. strict weight method. They through charges by volume, recoded the weight and shot them with any variances, then compared to precisely trickled weighed charges. This test found better consistecy of velocity by pure volume, although others have done similar and found the opposite.

I'm not a precision long range shooter, and not even that good of a long range shot, so all of that effort would be a waste for me. Pretty much all my shooting has been within a couple hundred yards. I try to keep a consistent COL. Any time I change something on a powder measure or open a new can of powder, I cycle the measure a few times to uniform, and test about 10 charges. It seems to be pretty easy to get consistency within a tenth +/- with most powders, and slightly better if you find one your measure type likes. That's good enough for me. With larger cases like 30/06, a 10th of a grain is a very small percentage of the volume, so the variations are reduced. The smaller the case volume, the trickier and pickier it is. I'm still looking for a fine grain powder that I can trust to get consisten throws and use most of the case volume for .380 ACP. Think like this- lets say you are doing a 30/06 load that calls for 55 grains of powder X, which works out to 4.0425 CC. A change of .1 grain represents a fairly small percent change in the total energy. With the .380 with a common fast burning pistol powder, the charge might be something like 2.6 grains of Powder Y. An increase or decrease of .1 grains of powder Y would be a significang change in percent of total energy. So a very tiny amount of clumping or spilled powder or static stick, etc. is a very big difference. That makes .380 very easy to get wrong and 30-06 comparitively hard to screw up. in 30/06, the velocity change by .1 grain at 1-200 yards might not even effect the drop by an inch. It would matter a lot at 500 + though. It's pretty easy to load ammo that is better than store bought hunting ammo. Matching mid grad match is pretty doable. Matching the top shelf stuff takes skill, tools and patience. If you have that kind of experience, you are probably also tailoring the ammo to the gun and exceeding the performance of the best ammo you could buy.

I'm sure someone like Scoots has the experience of making something like that work, and could give more practical advice.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:01 am 
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If your dad is just getting started, he's listed .357.

That's about the easiest and most forgiving thing to learn on. You almost never need to trim, it takes about any weird shape of bullet you could want, and generally is less picky about the "jump". He can crimp however he wishes as long as it fits. There is more data than you could ever want, and the savings are huge. Plus, if you aren't loading max loads, his brass could outlive you. Don't start by choosing the powder that gets the most loads per pound.That kind of powder will be a very small volume, and will only fill a bit at the bottom of the case. Instead, choose kinda the opposite to start. A powder which fills most of the case is better. It will be more efficient, and you substantially reduce the risk of missing a charge. If you choose a bulky charge, a double charge would spill over or prevent placing a bullet, so you'd have to be pretty oblivious to have that error.

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P.M. me if you want help:
modify or fix your gun

shotguns, some gunsmithing, reloading, fabrication, knife making, etc.

I'm a firearms/NFA attorney in Wa. Let's combine business, pleasure, and stamps.

http://www.youtube.com/user/armaggedonite


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:22 am 
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Wow thanks! Great info. I went ahead and got him the hornady lock and loader bench rest version.

http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Loa ... st-1-Each/

This is he one I believe he wants. Anyone have experience with it?


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